Transcript – Miniseries on Sustainable Development Goals, Episode 2: Challenges of the Sustainable Development Goals in Africa with Caroline Delany
Alexandre Lévêque: Caroline Delany is very well versed in international affairs. Since she joined what was then the Canadian International Development Agency in 2005, Caroline has held many roles in international development and foreign policy, particularly in South Asia and Africa. She was Canada’s high commissioner to Mozambique as well as director of the Mozambique development program. She has led Global Affairs Canada’s engagement in many development programs and policies, such as the Feminist International Assistance Policy.
Hello dear listeners, this is Alexandre Lévêque, Assistant Deputy Minister of Strategic Policy at Global Affairs Canada. Welcome to this miniseries on the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). In this episode, Caroline Delany and I will discuss the challenges associated with the SDGs in Africa. So, again, welcome.
Welcome, Caroline.
Caroline Delany: Thank you very much.
Alexandre Lévêque: Before we begin, I would like to point out that this episode is part of a 3-part podcast miniseries on the SDGs. In accordance with Canada’s Official Languages Act, guests are free to speak in their language of choice. So, if you’re ready, let’s get started.
Caroline, you’re just back from a number of years based in Maputo in Mozambique, where you were high commissioner. And for our listeners, “high commissioner” and “ambassador” are 2 synonymous titles. High commissioner simply means that you’re posted in a Commonwealth country. And, actually, Caroline and I have this in common because I was once high commissioner to Tanzania, which is right next door to Mozambique. Caroline, tell me a little bit about how you viewed and understood your role as high commissioner.
Caroline Delany: Thanks, Alexandre. It’s nice to meet someone who has a similar experience with regard to explaining that particular title. And the other thing that was unique about my time there was that I was also director of the development program, which I think is one of the only positions left in the department that is still head of mission and development director. So it was a really excellent opportunity for me to be able to drive integration across all of our lines of efforts in our engagement in Mozambique as well as the other 2 countries that I covered, which were Malawi and Eswatini. Some of my favourite times there were really related to the field visits. I think some of my strongest memories are related to meeting women’s rights organizations who declared themselves feminists all over Mozambique and Malawi and Eswatini and really moved to mobilize support, whether it was for shelter to women experiencing violence at home or to respond to the risks to young people in the face of climate disasters. It was those relationships that I was able to build and the things that I was able to learn from the Mozambicans, Malawians and Emaswati, who were working so hard to build a better future for their country. So that’s really what I remember about my time there.
Alexandre Lévêque: And I have to say, what you mentioned actually brings back great memories for me in my time in East Africa because what you mentioned really echoes my time there and some of my favourite experiences were also field visits. And you mentioned feminism: this was a big theme when I was posted to Tanzania, as well. Caroline, you are currently the Director General, Southern and Eastern Africa Bureau, at headquarters. Could you tell us a little bit about the role of the SDGs in the countries in your region?
Caroline Delany: Thank you. That’s a good question, but it’s also a little difficult. Clear objectives, as defined in the SDGs, are essential to focus our collective business on the work that will make it possible to reduce poverty. And nowhere is this more important than on the African continent, where extreme poverty has increased during the COVID pandemic. Despite this, much progress has been made on the continent in recent decades, and there is cause for optimism looking ahead. One study suggests that 14.1 million lives have been saved in Africa as a result of the SDGs’ focus on issues such as child mortality, maternal mortality and AIDS. In the African context, I also think that the SDGs’ recognition of the fact that all countries have work to do to address the drivers of poverty is an important step towards international approaches that truly recognize that we are all partners in this.
Alexandre Lévêque: Thank you, Caroline. I am well aware that when you’re dealing with development issues, it’s not always easy. As the former High Commissioner of Canada to Mozambique, tell us a little bit about the challenges the countries in your region - what are some of the challenges you faced or were confronted with in implementing the SDGs?
Caroline Delany: A key challenge for the SDGs is that engagement toward and awareness of the SDGs remain limited in the day-to-day development work on the ground. While useful at the global level, they don’t always frame the work how governments, people and implementing partners understand it. This is not to say that there’s not value in the goals. One of the most important outcomes of the MDGs and the SDGs is the importance of data and even our ability to talk about the challenges to meeting the SDGs is because of the data and the data systems that both the MDGs and the SDGs have driven in developing countries.
Alexandre Lévêque: Thank you very much, Caroline. And for our listeners: a reminder that MDGs refers to the Millennium Development Goals, which preceded the Sustainable Development Goals. Music to my ears as the chief data officer for the department: I love to hear when data can be put to good use. Any other successes that involve Canada and your countries of accreditation in the implementation of the SDGs?
Caroline Delany: I think, of course, for us, in terms of the Feminist International Assistance Policy, gender equality is always front [of] mind and a major priority in Canada’s engagement overseas. And I certainly felt that in Mozambique. And the focus on gender equality and the SDGs I really think is a driving factor around continued attention to the particular challenges that women and girls face in terms of realizing their full potential. I think one of the most profound experiences that I had while I was on posting was meeting young mentors. These are young women who mentor other girls younger than them who are at risk of child marriage. In Mozambique, they call it premature unions, which I think is also a useful way of recognizing these are not consensual relationships, these are not marriages but, but forced unions between children and adults. And these mentors play an incredible role and a very profound role in terms of supporting the girls to avoid these circumstances, to have those difficult conversations with their family members or with others that can support them to avoid those particular pitfalls. And I really think that’s a big memory for me: the strength of those mentors and the difficult work that they have in supporting the girls in their communities.
Alexandre Lévêque: Now, in the past, we’ll say [a] year, year and a half, maybe even going back 2, 3 years, given the number of crises…the layered crises that started with the pandemic, a lot of analysis, a lot of publications have started talking about the fact that the SDGs are now off track. Obtaining them, the amount of resources that are required to achieve them are not tracking the need and in this context of what we now call “pluri-crises,” it seems like they’ve become less and less attainable. Based on your experience, are they attainable? And are there some key actions that Canada can take to help increase the momentum and actually meet the SDGs by 2030?
Caroline Delany: I personally believe the SDGs remain very relevant because they are an expression of global objectives with regard to development and they are tools to be able to track progress toward really important objectives. At the same time, I think that it’s important to recognize that in the African context in particular, we’re not on track to meet the targets for 2030. And, in fact, target number 1 in terms of the reduction of extreme poverty looks incredibly and almost impossible to meet before 2030. And so part of the discussion around the SDGs is to recognize their limitations that exist already. For Canada, I think it really does mean just doubling down on what we already know is essential for development and I would offer that in the African context: this means recognizing African leadership and expertise. There is a set of African objectives as well: it’s called Agenda 2063. These are longer-term objectives and they’re very much driven by the members of the African Union. They can inform our understanding of the SDGs and what’s needed to move forward on those over the next, well, I guess, 8 years now.
Alexandre Lévêque: Caroline, I’d like to finish on a bit of a hopeful note. I received Ambassador Rae, Bob Rae, our Ambassador to the UN, at the same microphone recently. We also finished on a bit of his hopes for the future. Canada has played an important leadership role on climate change, on biodiversity. Not so long ago, the Conference of Parties, COP15, was hosted in Montréal on biodiversity. I’m curious to know: What are your hopes particularly with regard to the climate action goal? Could you provide a couple of words with regard to specifically the climate action goal?
Caroline Delany: I do think there’s reason to be optimistic because I really think that we’ve seen the world turn a corner when it comes to climate change and climate action. And there’s a level of recognition of the crisis that I don’t think was there. For example, when I landed in Mozambique in 2018, it really felt that Mozambicans’ understanding of the impacts of climate change was much higher than what I had seen in Canada. And I think that that’s changed in the 4 years that I have been away. And what I hope is that this turns into concrete, rapid and flexible tools to support the countries that have the least responsibility for climate change, but are also the most impacted. The other opportunity that this situation creates is that these new technologies and the tools for climate adaptation and mitigation to address existing gaps that drive persistent poverty are really there, unlike Canada, where we face the very tough work of adapting existing infrastructure. In many African countries, there is the opportunity to build in climate-smart approaches from the very beginning to leapfrog technology, to use some lingo that’s used quite a bit these days, and I do think that that’s particularly exciting.
Alexandre Lévêque: Caroline, thank you very much. It’s been a real pleasure having you today.
Caroline Delany: Thank you very much.
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